Christians & Divorce! The Bible Perspective!

[00:00:00] - [Speaker 0]
According to research from the Institute for Family Studies, couples who cohabitate before getting engaged are thirty nine percent more likely to divorce compared to those who do not live together marriage. Welcome back everybody. Whenever you hear that song, you are tuned in to God Class Podcast. Yeah. Well, I'm getting better at that.

[00:00:28] - [Speaker 1]
Getting better at it, man.

[00:00:29] - [Speaker 0]
Man, I can't believe it. Alright. So we're back at Gotta use

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your hand like a conductor. That's right.

[00:00:36] - [Speaker 0]
And you heard me tapping right there. I'm still trying to get a I'm still trying to get a gig on one of Pastor Marcus's songs out there. I'll do it for free. I don't need to be paid, okay? Yep.

[00:00:52] - [Speaker 0]
Welcome back everybody and I know you've heard it over and over again, but please we were blessed by your likes on social media. And of course, you're subscribing to that. So that's all good. We're excited that we have a new website. The web site is and you'll see it on the bottom there and you'll see it a few times during the podcast.

[00:01:14] - [Speaker 0]
It's insightgodcast.com. It's all a continuous word, insightgodcast.com. So go there, you'll have instant access to all of our episodes that we've had the titles of them. You have audio for those of you that may be driving or multitasking and or we have the certainly we have the video of every single episode. So my name is Roy Resto.

[00:01:41] - [Speaker 0]
I'm Marcus Martin. I am salt.

[00:01:43] - [Speaker 1]
Numb pepper.

[00:01:47] - [Speaker 0]
Welcome to the Salt N' Pepper Show, which is not the name of our podcast, okay? But we're gonna continue to do

[00:01:53] - [Speaker 1]
that till we wear it out. Dadjokes.com. That's where we got that from.

[00:01:57] - [Speaker 0]
That's right, that's right. I like that. So, Marcus, what are what are we be talking about today?

[00:02:02] - [Speaker 1]
We're gonna be talking about a topic that is a very, very important topic, very serious topic. It is the topic of divorce. Divorce is a huge topic because everybody a lot of people have differing opinions about it, the value of marriage itself, and so I think this is gonna be a good conversation. Wow. My wife and I have a great testimony too that we'll get to share.

[00:02:25] - [Speaker 1]
Oh, wow. And so yeah. Cool. So,

[00:02:28] - [Speaker 0]
Marcus, we're talking about that topic, divorce, you know, but why don't you share with everybody that may be listening for the first time, what what's the goal of our podcasts that we have?

[00:02:39] - [Speaker 1]
The goal of our podcast is to address issues that the church sometimes doesn't have the time to really dig into or sometimes even avoids a little. Oh, yes. And so we're going to talk about those subjects, and we're going to dive into them and have real life discussions that people can really enjoy and be ministered to. Oh my gosh, and divorce being one of them.

[00:03:03] - [Speaker 0]
You don't hear that too much, you know, in the pulpits anymore. It's all good. So we can't talk about divorce without having some ladies on the set. Absolutely. Or we'd be accused of being one-sided, right?

[00:03:17] - [Speaker 1]
Yes.

[00:03:18] - [Speaker 0]
So I'd like to introduce to you our two guests that we have over here.

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Pastor Lashonda.

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And Pastor Ann.

[00:03:25] - [Speaker 0]
And tell us just a little bit about what do you do?

[00:03:27] - [Speaker 3]
I co pastor in Pewaukee at our church, which is called Outfitters Ministries.

[00:03:33] - [Speaker 0]
Okay.

[00:03:34] - [Speaker 2]
And I am the co pastor of our church, well we're traveling now, which is Live and Worship International with my husband, Pastor Marcus Martin.

[00:03:47] - [Speaker 0]
And she's not my wife, okay? Pastor Andrew's not my wife, she's my pastor by the

[00:03:51] - [Speaker 1]
way. Taken.

[00:03:56] - [Speaker 0]
Well, listen, just for discussion purposes over here, you know, these statistics regarding divorce are are are mind blowing out there. All these statistics on it. And I just just for stir up conversation, I'd like to start up with a couple of them and open it up to discussion. One of them says, contemporary divorce rates in The United States hover between forty and fifty percent. Wow.

[00:04:20] - [Speaker 0]
For the first marriages, for first marriages, subsequent marriages are even more likely to lead to divorce with partners in at around sixty percent of second marriages and over seventy percent of third marriages separating. So it sounds like, you know, once you divorce once, it's more likely become ingrained behavior. And this was interesting, the rate of gray divorces involving spouses over 50 has roughly doubled since the 1990s.

[00:04:50] - [Speaker 3]
Wow.

[00:04:50] - [Speaker 0]
And before I open up the discussion, just there's plenty of statistics in here, but another one that I'd like that I personally like, it says religion can significantly impact marriage stability. Pregnant pause there. Wow. According to Pew Research, individuals who regularly attend religious services are fourteen percent less likely to divorce compared to those who do not. I know we got a bunch to talk about here, so Yeah.

[00:05:19] - [Speaker 1]
Be shy. I'll I'll kick it off. What was interesting when I was thinking about the topic of divorce, I really felt like the Holy Spirit really focused my attention on God's favor when it comes to marriage. It is the Bible makes it explicitly clear that man receives favor upon marriage. But the opposite of of mistreating your mate can cause your prayers to be hindered.

[00:05:45] - [Speaker 1]
First Peter three and seven seven through nine, it says, ye husbands in like manner dwell with your wives according to knowledge, given honor unto the woman as unto the weaker vessel. That's a physical thing. As being also joint heirs of the grace of life to the end that your prayers be not hindered. Finally, be ye like minded, compassionate, loving as brother, and tenderhearted, humble minded, not rendering evil for evil, or reveling for reveling, but contrariwise blessing for hereunto were ye called that ye should inherit a blessing. So your prayers are hindered if you mistreat your mate.

[00:06:26] - [Speaker 1]
And this is not this is talking to men in this particular time. And the reason that it's it's talking to men is because it had to be said. The reason that you hear all these conversations in the Bible where where Paul says, hey. You know, Moses permitted you to have a divorce, but for the hardness of your heart. You know?

[00:06:44] - [Speaker 1]
What Jesus said is actually he said, Moses permitted you to have divorce because of the hardness of your heart, but it was not supposed to be.

[00:06:51] - [Speaker 3]
That's That's right.

[00:06:51] - [Speaker 1]
Strong. It was not supposed to be. Mhmm. It was because of the hardness of your heart.

[00:06:57] - [Speaker 0]
Now, you gotta explain that one.

[00:06:59] - [Speaker 1]
Marriage is in because of the hardness of people's hearts. Mhmm. Unwillingness, probably a bet a great segue into my wife and I story. I think, my wife and I were we're married we've been married for twenty one years. We were divorced for, all of six months, and we ended up remarrying.

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We weren't even out of the same house for more than two weeks.

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You know, good thing when you see it.

[00:07:23] - [Speaker 1]
Man, I I learned my lesson. But, you know, we we we there was hardness of heart. There was there was an unwillingness to forgive.

[00:07:31] - [Speaker 0]
Mhmm.

[00:07:32] - [Speaker 1]
The Bible why do you think the Bible says to not be bitter with her? There there's a reason. There's a reason that the Bible says that marriage is a circle. It's a circle. So whatever enters that circle, if you don't receive deliverance, it continues to cycle in your marriage.

[00:07:49] - [Speaker 1]
And there were a lot of issues that were undealt with Mhmm. In our marriage. And we just we just will skate past them, and we will sprinkle a little Jesus on it. That a little dab

[00:08:00] - [Speaker 0]
Well, can I ask you something? Okay. Now I have I have some separate lists over I'm not gonna go over them at this point, but they're the reasons for divorce. Okay, and I have two different lists over here, and so there's a lot in commonality. Unless it's like, really deeply personal, can you possibly share what were the reasons that you

[00:08:23] - [Speaker 1]
did that okay? So for us, it was argumentative. We were just we couldn't I think I think that to some degree it was demonic, because I'm telling you, we would argue about the air we breathe. And instead of getting to a place where we would resolve it, there was such an immaturity that we would just just allow the the argument and the bitterness to to rise and to continue. And then we would just do ministry.

[00:08:52] - [Speaker 1]
We would just distract ourself. A lot of times people don't handle issues in their relationships and their marriage and in their families. It off. They put it off, and they just do other things and busy themselves. So it's unresolved.

[00:09:04] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. And then, you know, stuff happens in life that forces you in the same room, like COVID forces you in the same room. And now you have to talk about the thing that you've been avoiding talking about. And so it it it brought up a lot of a lot of pain, a lot of frustration. And and mind you, if you are thinking that you're doing great, which is me just talking about me, I'm thinking I'm doing great, then we sit down, and I realize I've been doing horrible.

[00:09:35] - [Speaker 1]
You have two ways to go about that. You suck it up, and you work at it, or you run like a baby. So some of us are were immature.

[00:09:47] - [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.

[00:09:47] - [Speaker 1]
And instead of dealing with the true issues and and I want you guys to understand, like, I have no I have no problem sharing this because Jesus is a deliverer.

[00:09:56] - [Speaker 0]
There you go.

[00:09:57] - [Speaker 1]
He's a healer. Amen. And so I I never as a leader, I never wanted to try to come off like I had everything together. Mhmm. My family's not perfect.

[00:10:07] - [Speaker 1]
I'm still working on my kids, still working on different things. So no nobody's perfect. But this this thing that that hit us, it kinda hit us out of kinda out of nowhere. Mhmm. What do you think, honey?

[00:10:17] - [Speaker 1]
What what's

[00:10:18] - [Speaker 2]
I I I would just start. Well, we got married really young.

[00:10:21] - [Speaker 1]
Very young.

[00:10:22] - [Speaker 2]
I was 22. He was 19.

[00:10:23] - [Speaker 1]
19. Yeah.

[00:10:24] - [Speaker 2]
And we already had I had three kids when I got married to him when we met.

[00:10:29] - [Speaker 1]
Yep.

[00:10:30] - [Speaker 2]
So then we had four more. So it was like we was young, we didn't really know how to be great parents, we had we was in ministry. We didn't even know how to be great friends. So we it was like

[00:10:45] - [Speaker 1]
There was no time to develop our marriage at all.

[00:10:47] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. We didn't even know how to be ourselves. It It's was

[00:10:51] - [Speaker 0]
amazing how some of the stuff you're sharing is on the list of why people get divorced, go ahead.

[00:10:57] - [Speaker 3]
Mhmm,

[00:10:57] - [Speaker 2]
and so, it's really like, I believe all the arguments and things came from that because we didn't know, we was just winging it with God. And so just trying to make everything work, to make our family work, trying to make ministry work, trying to keep going. And so like you said, when we actually sat down it was like Who are you? Right. I don't know because I don't even know who I am.

[00:11:25] - [Speaker 2]
Was

[00:11:25] - [Speaker 0]
So what made you get back together?

[00:11:27] - [Speaker 2]
I love them. I

[00:11:29] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah, we love each other. Aw. That's the one thing we have. Aw. That girl, I drink her bath water.

[00:11:37] - [Speaker 2]
No, I I love them and I believe, you know, I I don't believe, you know, even though I was 22, the bible tells you it's better not to make a vow than to make one and break it. I believe in sticking to what it is that I've stood before God, whatever it is, and vowed to do. I vowed to be a wife for sickness and health, better or worse. Death doest part. Believe in holding fast to those things that you know

[00:12:12] - [Speaker 0]
Amen. I love that.

[00:12:13] - [Speaker 2]
Commit to. So Mhmm. God won, and I love the man. I you know?

[00:12:19] - [Speaker 1]
She taught she taught me she taught me how to how to stick it out. I grew up in a house without a father. And so all of those things play a part in the way you relate to other humans. And I grew up very angry. I was a very, very angry kid.

[00:12:34] - [Speaker 1]
And so I got tired of getting in trouble all the time in school. And so I developed this mentality of if I'm getting upset, run. At least if I run, I won't do anything crazy. Right?

[00:12:48] - [Speaker 3]
And

[00:12:49] - [Speaker 1]
so I grew up with the mentality of as soon as the temperature gets to a certain degree, flee. That doesn't work in marriage. And I didn't I didn't realize that I was checking out constantly during conversations. I was checking out. I remember we were in a counseling session one day, and the pastor looked at me and she said

[00:13:08] - [Speaker 0]
Now this was during divorce or after divorce?

[00:13:11] - [Speaker 1]
This was during we were trying to work on it. This was before the divorce. Okay. A pastor said to me, you're future pacing. I'm like, what do you mean?

[00:13:18] - [Speaker 1]
While she's talking, you're preparing your litigation.

[00:13:24] - [Speaker 0]
Oh, boy.

[00:13:24] - [Speaker 1]
You're not listening to her at all. I had several prophets come to me and say, listen to your wife. I said, what you mean listen to my wife? I'm I'm I'm the man. But I wasn't listening to they were really saying, listen to her.

[00:13:41] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. You're not you will be able to you love her. So you'll be able to fix whatever it is if you just listen. And I just I I wasn't getting it. And it took certain circumstances for me to be alone, and for me to sit by myself and say, man, I blew it.

[00:14:02] - [Speaker 1]
I really, really blew it. This woman loves me with an unnormal love, and I blew it. And it takes a lot out of a man to admit that he's wrong. That's true. Yep.

[00:14:17] - [Speaker 1]
And to be willing to fix it. Because I I just had I had this mentality, I have too much to do than to be concerned with this marriage. Sounds crazy. Right? Mhmm.

[00:14:27] - [Speaker 1]
But to me, that makes it it sounded so much like it made so much sense. I have too much to do in ministry. I have too much to focus on than to be concerned with this marriage. Mhmm. I'd rather be single.

[00:14:40] - [Speaker 1]
And what we don't understand is that when you deal treacherously with the wife of your youth, this is what the scripture says. When it says the wife of your youth, it's not talking about your age, but it's talking about your wife your first wife, the wife that God gave you, your first. He said, when you deal treacherously with them, God will hinder your progress. He will hinder your prayer. Not because to be mean to you, but sometimes the hindering of your progress stops you long enough for you to see yourself in the mirror.

[00:15:14] - [Speaker 0]
Mhmm. Mhmm.

[00:15:15] - [Speaker 1]
And say, wow. I'm not looking like Christ right now.

[00:15:18] - [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.

[00:15:19] - [Speaker 1]
Try not to cry. I didn't think this would be

[00:15:21] - [Speaker 2]
Can I say something?

[00:15:23] - [Speaker 0]
Of course.

[00:15:23] - [Speaker 2]
So, you know, and that's one thing we had to learn. I I I'm I like I love family. So I wanted my kids to have a two parent home. But we had to understand something. You know, the bible says charity starts at home and spreads abroad.

[00:15:40] - [Speaker 0]
Mhmm.

[00:15:41] - [Speaker 2]
We gotta understand like

[00:15:42] - [Speaker 0]
Say that again.

[00:15:43] - [Speaker 2]
Charity starts at home and Charity. Mhmm.

[00:15:45] - [Speaker 1]
Love.

[00:15:46] - [Speaker 2]
And love. And so when you we can't I think in ministry or whatever you're doing, you can work too much, you know? We wanna fulfill everybody else space void in their hearts or whatever it is that they need before we look at what is needed in the home. And so that's one of the things that even in church and ministry sometimes we spread love charity abroad, but home is missing. Everybody is broken at home.

[00:16:18] - [Speaker 2]
Everybody needs deliverance at home.

[00:16:21] - [Speaker 0]
Oh, seven kids, I'm glad you like family.

[00:16:25] - [Speaker 1]
Absolutely.

[00:16:26] - [Speaker 3]
But I think that's really true what you're saying, because I think because I've been saved for a long time and I've seen families actually deteriorate because they have not prioritized their family. Because we always said, Ministry first. You know, and it's just like, you know, when we serve God, when we serve our family, we are doing the work of the Lord. And so, it's like, and it actually trickles down because to have a strong family is a great testimony. And so it's important that the families are strong.

[00:16:58] - [Speaker 3]
In fact, this is where we see the fabric of this world of families being torn apart and through divorce or whatever. So it's like, no wonder why the enemy comes against it because it makes such a statement. Because like in the Bible, talks about we're an example. Our marriage is an example of Christ to his church.

[00:17:17] - [Speaker 0]
Absolutely.

[00:17:18] - [Speaker 3]
And he says, you know, like women submit to their husbands and wives. Love your wife like Christ loved the church. I mean, much did Christ love the church? He laid down and died for

[00:17:30] - [Speaker 1]
her. Absolutely.

[00:17:31] - [Speaker 3]
You know, so for the bride of Christ. So what I'm saying is we kind of put things in categories and compartments, and we don't see the value of really loving our family because we think ministry, that's the place to go. But actually, we do ministry at home Mhmm. Strengthen our families. And from that point, we are we actually are stronger.

[00:17:54] - [Speaker 0]
Oh, man. You guys are making me feel convicted over here. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god.

[00:17:58] - [Speaker 1]
God desires the he desires the root over the leaves. Say that again? He desires the root over the leaves.

[00:18:05] - [Speaker 0]
So what do you mean by that?

[00:18:06] - [Speaker 1]
I I think it's important that we understand that God desires the root over the leaves. Meaning that it's the things that are hidden or underground that other people don't see. It's the things that produce the fruit that are on the leaf. So your family is going to be the catalyst to produce a fruitful ministry. Oh.

[00:18:26] - [Speaker 1]
And so I think we forget that that that's the most important thing to God.

[00:18:30] - [Speaker 0]
Man, I love

[00:18:31] - [Speaker 1]
that.

[00:18:31] - [Speaker 0]
That that's really good. I'll have to integrate some of that stuff into my own lexicon. You guys give me some good material there. Hey, I'll give you another stat over here. I thought this one was really interesting.

[00:18:41] - [Speaker 0]
Just tell me what your opinions are. Couples who live together before marriage often experience higher divorce rates. According to research from the Institute for Family Studies, couples who cohabitate before getting engaged are thirty nine percent more likely to divorce compared to those who do not live together before marriage. This trend highlights the importance of clear expectations and compatibility discussions before cohabitation, as these factors often play a crucial role in long term marital success. So you know, that goes back to our very first podcast we had.

[00:19:21] - [Speaker 0]
Remember Marcus? We were talking about is sex before marriage a sin? And in the course of that, we made a strong recommendation is that don't have sex before marriage because once sex comes into it, it overshadows all the other aspects you should be exploring with your mate. Absolutely. Regarding compatibility.

[00:19:43] - [Speaker 0]
Absolutely. Other about living together and 39% more likely? Any opinions on that?

[00:19:49] - [Speaker 1]
I just wonder I just wonder what about that, you know, would produce that type of stat. You know? Is it them being together? Or is it just the fact that maybe, you know, you lose the favor on your marriage for doing that? Or, like, what is it?

[00:20:05] - [Speaker 1]
Like, I wonder

[00:20:07] - [Speaker 0]
No. Well, in here, they're they're suggesting that the cohabitation, the sex that that that that comes from living together before being married, that that's gonna overshadow. It says the trend highlights the importance of clear expectations and compatibility discussions before

[00:20:24] - [Speaker 1]
Gotcha. Okay.

[00:20:25] - [Speaker 0]
Cohabitation as these factors often play a critical role in long term marital success.

[00:20:30] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. You know, so you get distracted and you never really build the relationship. Exactly. Just get focused on the physical aspect of the relationship. Okay, I see that.

[00:20:38] - [Speaker 1]
That makes sense.

[00:20:39] - [Speaker 0]
Yeah. Any opinions on that?

[00:20:40] - [Speaker 3]
I really agree with that, though. That's true. Mean, You know?

[00:20:45] - [Speaker 0]
Yeah, that's not insignificant. You know, even if you say, Well, I don't agree with that or whatever. When they say 39%, even if you say, Well, take a 10% from I our mean, 30 is still pretty high. And you know, Pastor Marcus, earlier you spoke about you grew up without a father. I did too.

[00:21:03] - [Speaker 0]
Okay. And it says there's another one that says approximately forty percent of children in The United States experience parental divorce by the age of 18. Forty percent. Forty percent. And I was talking with Marcus, perhaps on a future show, we may talk about the role of fathers.

[00:21:20] - [Speaker 0]
And, you know, by the way, Marcus, one of the things I really like about you and I respect about you, and I've said it in a few different places is that, you know, if anybody had the opportunity to walk away from seven kids with a lot of challenges, man

[00:21:35] - [Speaker 1]
A lot of challenges. It

[00:21:36] - [Speaker 0]
was you. Yeah. You know, you stuck it out. Mhmm. You said, No, I'm gonna be a foul.

[00:21:41] - [Speaker 0]
Yeah. Okay. And none of us is perfect. You know, I'm sure you can hit yourself on the head and shoulders about that. Still that is to be this to be admired despite the fact that you grew up without a father most likely because of divorce.

[00:21:55] - [Speaker 0]
That's what happened to me. And so I thought that was It says The US census reports that single parent households often formed after divorce are on the rise with nearly 19,000,000 children living with a single parent.

[00:22:10] - [Speaker 1]
19,000,000.

[00:22:11] - [Speaker 0]
Yeah. Because of divorce. Wow.

[00:22:14] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. And the effects, I don't think people really understand the effects of divorce on the child.

[00:22:20] - [Speaker 0]
Oh, wow. We need to talk

[00:22:21] - [Speaker 1]
about that. When divorce happens, you literally you're focused on the fighting with you and your mate. Mhmm. I remember watching my son cry. I remember having conversations with my daughters in the middle of what was happening Mhmm.

[00:22:36] - [Speaker 1]
And them feeling so disappointed in me. Feeling like I wasn't leaving their mother, but I was leaving them also. Wow. No matter how much I tried to reassure them that in if if this divorce went through, that there would be no time that they would not see me. There was a fear that that would change.

[00:22:56] - [Speaker 1]
Oh my gosh. Mhmm. And it it broke my heart that they would even have to question it. But when everything falls apart in your life, everything as you know it falls apart, you could question everything at that point.

[00:23:08] - [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.

[00:23:08] - [Speaker 1]
You can question God. You can question your parents. You can question everything. So I really, you know, had to take a look and say, wait a minute. I'm not just affecting you know, I my son had to leave college and come home.

[00:23:21] - [Speaker 0]
It's not just between you and your wife. Mhmm.

[00:23:22] - [Speaker 1]
He left college and came home. He's like, I I think I need to be home because I don't think these the kids, the younger brothers and sisters Mhmm. Are gonna be able to handle what's happening.

[00:23:31] - [Speaker 3]
And I think too, kids take on like a spirit of abandonment. And you know, where they feel lost and they feel the effects of a broken family. And not only that, they also sometimes can go into like, what did I do? And self blame. You know, they blame themselves.

[00:23:52] - [Speaker 3]
Maybe I did something to cause the divorce

[00:23:54] - [Speaker 0]
they I really felt that way.

[00:23:56] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah. I've heard my kids say, maybe if I would have been behaving a little better, and then dad wouldn't be so frustrated. You know?

[00:24:06] - [Speaker 3]
So, That's true. Really goes really deep, I think, within their spirit too. And they need healing. You think it's just the spouses that need healing, but the whole family actually needs healing. And restoration.

[00:24:20] - [Speaker 2]
I'm sorry. And it feels like you lose that sense of wholeness. Cause when you're all together, it's like you feel the protection, you feel the love. It's like a sense of

[00:24:32] - [Speaker 0]
What do mean by protection?

[00:24:34] - [Speaker 2]
Even while we were getting divorced, as a wife, I felt like just the protection of him being there, like the man of the house, felt safe. I know God is with me, know. Our dad is

[00:24:48] - [Speaker 1]
always with

[00:24:49] - [Speaker 2]
us, but our kids is like that. Male figure leaving a house, it was just like we were uncovered or something. I don't know. I can only tell you how I felt and how they felt. It was more

[00:25:02] - [Speaker 1]
of piece

[00:25:03] - [Speaker 2]
was missing.

[00:25:04] - [Speaker 1]
It was a death.

[00:25:05] - [Speaker 3]
Yes. Mhmm.

[00:25:06] - [Speaker 1]
Is. It's like it's a You you are connected with someone on on a soulless realm to a degree that you almost have to tear yourself to release them.

[00:25:18] - [Speaker 3]
Mhmm. Mhmm.

[00:25:19] - [Speaker 1]
It's painful. Mhmm. It's painful. And I I couldn't even endure the pain. I couldn't endure it.

[00:25:25] - [Speaker 1]
And I said to myself one day, I said, if it hurts this much to be away from this woman, then what am I doing?

[00:25:33] - [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.

[00:25:34] - [Speaker 1]
There has to be some value that it hurts this much to be away from her.

[00:25:41] - [Speaker 0]
Were you gonna say something, Pastor Anne?

[00:25:43] - [Speaker 3]
No. I just agree with what you're saying as far as divorce being a death, because there's a grieving process with anybody that goes through a divorce. You you think it's well, it's over. But there is a long grieving process because a lot of things come up. Like I know, like with some women, I have counseled like, what did I do wrong?

[00:26:04] - [Speaker 3]
What didn't I do? Or wasn't I good enough? I mean, are questions, very searching, soul searching questions that make you doubt yourself and make you walk, not very confident of your life. It really attacks your very spirit and soul. It goes that deep.

[00:26:22] - [Speaker 3]
And that's why God hates divorce, like he says in his words. Hate divorce because of such the cruelest of things that can happen through that. And I'm not saying that to shame anybody that's gone through a divorce. Let me just say that because there's forgiveness and there's restoration and God's Absolutely. Mercy and That your life is not over just because you've had a divorce.

[00:26:45] - [Speaker 3]
But I just want to encourage you that, you know, these things sometimes we take so lightly. Like I see like young people sometimes when they get married, they're more about the wedding than they are about the marriage, You know? And I understand that because it's all

[00:27:01] - [Speaker 0]
love

[00:27:01] - [Speaker 3]
and all fun and stuff. But there's a point, you know, that it's a growing together. I always say with my husband and I, we've been married for forty seven years. We're a union of two forgivers. And we're also learning.

[00:27:16] - [Speaker 3]
We're still learning, even at this point, that we never stop learning. But I think the key to a lot of that is communication is so To be able to communicate your feelings to your spouse, whether they agree with it or not. I mean, there's times that I think my husband's listening to this and he's probably ready to snore out. To be honest, you know, but very he sensitive to me. I have to say that.

[00:27:43] - [Speaker 3]
But there were times I'm sure it was testy. But the whole point is we communicate. We try to communicate as much as we can and share each other's feelings and just to validate our feelings. Not that they're right or that they're wrong, it's just that I hear you. And I think when we talk about intimacy, with our spouse, into me is into me you see.

[00:28:09] - [Speaker 3]
And so it's like we see in each other. It's not just about physical, it's about the very emotional part of our souls and spirits that we communicate with one another and see each other.

[00:28:22] - [Speaker 1]
Wow. What do you think about people who say, I mean, according to the scripture, they they say that a person who gets divorced should never marry again because God hates divorce. So they shouldn't they're always connected to that person until death. And, you know, they they use they use, you know, Old Testament scriptures to to qualify that. What do you think about that?

[00:28:44] - [Speaker 0]
Well, let me ask let me tag into that and read a scripture. We need to get the scripture out of the way. Yep. Let's do it. Okay.

[00:28:52] - [Speaker 0]
And that's Luke sixteen and eighteen. It says, anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery.

[00:28:59] - [Speaker 1]
That's the scripture.

[00:29:00] - [Speaker 0]
And the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. So we need to talk about that. So I I need I'm I'm surrounded by three pastors. So I need you guys to explain this one because it ties into to the to what you just said there a moment ago. So what do you guys think?

[00:29:16] - [Speaker 1]
I think it's I think it's a heavy statement. If if we're if we're using if we're using our brains and we listen to that scripture, it's it's telling you that that that covenant, God doesn't change his mind about you. And he desires for us to have the same level of covenant commitment to our mates.

[00:29:36] - [Speaker 0]
Right? Yeah. That's what Sean was talking about earlier.

[00:29:39] - [Speaker 1]
Like Christ love love your wife as Christ loved the church. At no point has Christ decided to press rewind on the cross. At no point has he decided, you know what? I forgive sins, but you know what? You've done too much.

[00:29:54] - [Speaker 1]
At no point. And that was the scripture that kind of brought me back, because I started to question it. Maybe if I continue with this divorce, will I be forever out of the will of God? And that's a thought that people have. I don't know.

[00:30:09] - [Speaker 1]
What do you guys think? I

[00:30:12] - [Speaker 2]
I I really don't know. I you know, when it comes to like, I just think about the vow thing, you know, about because there's some marriages people are in now. Even, you know, to this day where it's not a good marriage as far as like they're getting mentally, physically

[00:30:30] - [Speaker 1]
And they need to get out of

[00:30:31] - [Speaker 2]
abused. They they need to flee. Mhmm. They need to go. I

[00:30:35] - [Speaker 1]
don't think

[00:30:35] - [Speaker 2]
that that God will have you stay in something that somebody is, you know Absolutely. You.

[00:30:42] - [Speaker 1]
I agree.

[00:30:42] - [Speaker 2]
You know, your temple Yeah. Is supposed to be the Lord's or, you know, whatever however you feel. Your temple, you should not be getting Yeah. Beat in any way whether it's you you getting broken in your spirit or your emotions, your physical being. So I don't think that I think God you know, sometimes we go into things.

[00:31:04] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. But it's better not to it's it's better not to make a vow than than to make one and break it, but sometimes we we we young, we, you know, in our minds we immature, so we go in and say, oh, we really wanna be with this person. Like you said, it's all the infatuation with the wedding and how a person look or just, you know, and so it's more of just walking in blinds, seeing red flags, even God is speaking to you. Mhmm. You're getting that thing in your stomach and he said, no, no, no, but you just walk right into it and then it just things just start happening in the mirror.

[00:31:37] - [Speaker 2]
So I I think that God is a forgiving God. I think that, you know

[00:31:41] - [Speaker 1]
So he forgives, God forgives divorce. Is what you're saying?

[00:31:44] - [Speaker 2]
I believe, yes, if you have to if you have to get out of there and and you made a a mistake

[00:31:51] - [Speaker 1]
I agree.

[00:31:51] - [Speaker 2]
I believe, yes.

[00:31:53] - [Speaker 0]
Mhmm.

[00:31:53] - [Speaker 2]
You know, it is

[00:31:54] - [Speaker 1]
He said, whatsoever God has put together, let no man put asunder. Hence, God put together. Mhmm. Because some marriages, God didn't put together. We did.

[00:32:05] - [Speaker 1]
Mhmm. And I think that's a that's an important thing to look at whether or not it was a decision that was from God or it's a decision that you made. Because we we've we've encountered almost almost everything that a marriage could encounter.

[00:32:19] - [Speaker 0]
Mhmm.

[00:32:20] - [Speaker 1]
And we survived it, and we're still here. Amen. But we wouldn't prescribe our suffering on someone else

[00:32:27] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah.

[00:32:27] - [Speaker 1]
And say, you know what? You know what? You can you can deal with it. My son hit me in the head with a a pot. No.

[00:32:33] - [Speaker 1]
You can deal with it. That's only a plate. You know? So so we can we can't prescribe our suffering on other people as if they have to suffer. The Bible even says he he knows the way that I take, and when he has tried me, I shall come out as pure gold.

[00:32:50] - [Speaker 1]
So individually, God tries us. We all can't take the same thing. Mhmm. Likewise, in turmoil and tragedy, we all don't respond the same way.

[00:33:00] - [Speaker 2]
And and you know one thing, I even doing marital counseling, I would tell someone, what did God say to you? You could come to me and you can ask me what should I do, what did God say to you. I'll give you the word, but what did God say to you? Because there's people dying in their marriages. Know, there's so much kids dying because you didn't leave when you were supposed to leave.

[00:33:27] - [Speaker 2]
So, you have to know and be led. Even the Bible talks about Jesus and it's just, he said he was led into the wilderness by the spirit of God. We have to be led. And even them that are not in church, we were given that instinct. We were given something on the inside of

[00:33:45] - [Speaker 3]
us to say,

[00:33:45] - [Speaker 2]
no, go, stay. You know, so we just have to follow, you know.

[00:33:50] - [Speaker 1]
The spirit.

[00:33:51] - [Speaker 2]
The spirit. Or our instinct. That's what I believe in. Know what's best for you.

[00:33:57] - [Speaker 3]
But definitely physical abuse is not anywhere supported in Scripture. In fact, in one Corinthians seven it talks about if an unbelieving spouse abandons you, that's a reason to not have to keep your marital obligation also. So, God gives us a few things that are okay with divorce. But I think the problem really lies in there's too many excuses not to make the marriage. For one, we see it more like a contract, not a covenant between God, that the three braided cord is not easily broken.

[00:34:41] - [Speaker 3]
Jesus in the center, us and our spouse, right? And so when we get that straight, I think that's the advantage over being a Christian because we have that support, we have that strength in God, that God is with us and for our marriage. And so, even when we do counseling, you know, we always say, We're for

[00:35:01] - [Speaker 0]
the When you say, when we do counseling, do you mean you're receiving counseling or you're imparting counseling?

[00:35:08] - [Speaker 3]
When we're imparting counseling.

[00:35:09] - [Speaker 0]
Okay, so you've done, in your ministry as a pastor, you've done counseling on the topic of divorce. Yes.

[00:35:17] - [Speaker 3]
And I think sometimes people come in, they say, well, I want you to take my side or I want you to take my side. And it's just like, no, we're on the side of marriage to get this restored and healed. And that's what we're for. We're for your marriage. And so how that comes in, there's a whole process and we could go on and on about that.

[00:35:37] - [Speaker 3]
But the fact is, I believe that God is for us and for our marriages to stay strong. And I think it's such a testimony to the power of God's love for his church that that's what the enemy comes in and tries to break that representation. And so it's important that our marriages strong and God wants them to be strong. I don't know.

[00:36:02] - [Speaker 0]
Wow, that's cool. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah. You you mentioned a couple of things. You guys, everybody has mentioned a couple of things.

[00:36:09] - [Speaker 0]
I'm gonna statistics, some of the statistics on why people get divorced. Okay? Now, first of all, I wanna make clear to everybody. Have you experienced any these things that are on these widely researched topics, okay? That does not mean that you're right for divorce and it's okay to get divorced.

[00:36:27] - [Speaker 0]
That does not mean that.

[00:36:28] - [Speaker 3]
That's right.

[00:36:29] - [Speaker 0]
The purpose of us sharing this is that if you are experiencing this, now's the time to seek a counselor, to start listening, to do something about it before the before the wheels fall off the track. Okay. But some of these are interesting reasons for top 10 reasons for divorce find number one financial burdens or undisclosed debts to trouble running up your trouble opening up to your spouse. Running a family, lack of sex and intimacy. Your friends don't like your spouse.

[00:37:03] - [Speaker 0]
I didn't I didn't know that. This is common gambling, drugs and alcohol addiction, a toxic spouse. We've alluded to that. It's not me. It's you.

[00:37:14] - [Speaker 0]
Okay. High or unattainable expectations, schedule issues. A separate list had number one as marital infidelity. Yeah. Right?

[00:37:26] - [Speaker 0]
About financial disagreements. We've seen that again, weight gain, lack of intimacy, lack of equality, lack of preparation, poor communication. Marcus was talking about that addiction, abuse, or this is interesting differences in religion. Now, you know, out of all of those, the one that interests me is the is the one on financial disagreements. Man, there's so many couples that that haven't worked out the finances in their marriage.

[00:37:57] - [Speaker 0]
And by the way, the only reason why I'm even talking about is because it's it's in the top is in the top ones of all of those lists. And so that needs to be settled before you get married, before you move in with somebody that needs to be established. How we're to who who's going to who's going be the saver, who can pay the bills, how what are our financial goals? You know, that all has to be established. Who can be the main moneymaker?

[00:38:22] - [Speaker 0]
Lots of things that affect that. So just just make sure that in your hearts and your minds and your planning with your spouse that that gets settled.

[00:38:32] - [Speaker 3]
Mhmm. That's good.

[00:38:33] - [Speaker 0]
Any any comments on any of any of those things that are on there?

[00:38:37] - [Speaker 1]
I watch sometime I watch these shows that they kind of

[00:38:41] - [Speaker 0]
Reality shows?

[00:38:42] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. Kinda like reality shows. Okay. But they have this, like, this show called Balloon Pop. Right?

[00:38:46] - [Speaker 1]
And so this one guy comes in, and he has this balloon. I mean, everybody has balloon, and he kinda talks to them, asks them different questions. And if he doesn't like their philosophy about relationships, he pops their balloon. So it's like 20 women, one guy. And then they flip it, and it's one woman and and 20 men.

[00:39:05] - [Speaker 1]
But one of the most common things that show up it's very interesting because I like to I like to understand the culture that we're in right

[00:39:12] - [Speaker 3]
now. Right.

[00:39:12] - [Speaker 1]
But one of the questions that come up the most is, should a man and woman go fifty fifty when it comes to finances? It is a deal breaker for a lot of modern day women. It's it's it's weird to me that and this is gonna be a little a little rough, but just bear with me. Put your seat belt on. That women in today's society wanna be old school in some ways, and they wanna be and they wanna be new school in other ways.

[00:39:42] - [Speaker 1]
You know, they want you to not go fifty fifty. They want you to take care of the full responsibility. Mhmm. But then they don't wanna behave like wives. Mhmm.

[00:39:51] - [Speaker 1]
And that's what I've been watching. Like, when I watch these shows, the young lady is like, I'm I'm going out to party every night, but I want him to pay all the bills. Mhmm. So he's you're not gonna clean. You're not gonna cook.

[00:40:04] - [Speaker 1]
Like, what world do we live in? And so I would say not knowing those things is very important. Not knowing whether it's gonna be fifty fifty with finances or or if the guy's gonna take care of everything and you're gonna take care of the house, that's important. That's important because that that can be the a topic of great frustration, which will lead to hidden bitterness and, you know, the dissolution of the marriage.

[00:40:28] - [Speaker 3]
I think too that's that's a huge I I it's no question it's number one, probably because everybody deals with has to deal with finances. But even how we're brought up, like one might be a saver, one might be a spender. Know, someone doesn't care about jacking up your credit card to $10,000 No problem. I'll pay the minimum balance, you know? And so, I mean, we have a weird way how we in our culture, we have delayed gratification, right?

[00:40:55] - [Speaker 3]
So we do that. But I think is, I can just give an example for us because my husband and I grew up in a very middle class, not wealthy, but just hold, I was a fireman's daughter, kind of, and we didn't have a lot of money. We had eight kids, okay? So we had to save a lot of money. So we were very conservative in how we spent money, you know, and so was my husband.

[00:41:20] - [Speaker 3]
So we didn't have a lot of issues with finances because we kind of came from the same mindset. But that doesn't always happen. And sometimes we look at our spouse and says, It's got to be our provider, And I should get whatever I want. And it's not healthy for the household because you find yourself more in debt. So yeah, I just so agree.

[00:41:42] - [Speaker 3]
These things need to be talked out, especially even before marriage, would give you a great advantage. So it's something that needs to be addressed with. Some people think, well, we don't need to talk about that. I'm in love. But there's some practical things.

[00:41:57] - [Speaker 3]
So, I mean, we have even just how we spend money. It's like how, like, what's my limit? You know, and before we need to talk, you know, like can I spend $100 without talking to my husband or can I spend $20,000 and don't even even let him in on it? Know, I mean, are things that again, with communication, finances is a part of that too.

[00:42:17] - [Speaker 0]
We've done a lot of counseling, you said?

[00:42:19] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah, I've done.

[00:42:20] - [Speaker 0]
Yeah. What's common advice that practically every couple needs when they're going through challenges in their marriage? What's some of the common stuff that they need to hear in the Well, counseling

[00:42:34] - [Speaker 3]
I think, you know, do they want to have their marriage? Is there a passion, or I should say, a joint effort of wanting to make their marriage And start with communication. Communication is so key to that. We need to find out where at, each other at, and try to find where there is a middle ground. And that's a process.

[00:42:57] - [Speaker 3]
Know, that's a process that you don't find that sometimes overnight, but working through different things. But I, of course, would encourage to ask Holy Spirit, the Lord, to come enter into this issue, this problem. Because He is the Spirit of truth. He's the helper, He comes alongside that He can help us with these things. He'll highlight things that need to be working, just like Marcus was sharing.

[00:43:23] - [Speaker 3]
You know, there's things He had to come to realize. You know, that was Holy Spirit just showing Him things. And God loves to see our marriages prosper. Not survive, but really thrive. I really believe that.

[00:43:39] - [Speaker 3]
I think we sometimes just don't take our marriage as seriously, even as the Lord, and we just neglect them or take them for granted kind of thing. And one of the other things I just feel on the list is high and un sustainable expectations is another one. That is, I think, we have a whole list. Some of us women, he should be prince charming, he should be bringing it all. It's just like, he works hard, he comes home, and he's tired.

[00:44:14] - [Speaker 3]
So, I mean, there's a lot of things with that. It's about not being selfish and thinking of each other a lot more. The expectations is huge. I think that's where we run into a lot of problems. We're disappointed and we feel like I got a divorce, I'm disappointed with this marriage.

[00:44:32] - [Speaker 3]
It's just that well maybe if we have conversation, maybe my expectations should The be as high as they selfishness, yeah.

[00:44:39] - [Speaker 2]
And was one of the things I was gonna say is that, you know, we we got marital counseling, but those things are going in debt to that with the finances. We never really talked about like

[00:44:54] - [Speaker 1]
We just fumbled through it.

[00:44:55] - [Speaker 2]
We just fumbled through it. So as leaders too, it's important for us because you know, we're the ones marrying them. Know, like they come and they get married or stand before God and you know, as you know, do the service of the marriage, we need to make sure before that that they know because these are big problems in marriages, you know. Sometimes also I've experienced like in the religious, from a religious point where, you know, you guys just like he said, just wing it. Just do it.

[00:45:29] - [Speaker 2]
Just stay in it. Just like I you know, not explaining none of this. They're having just keep going. Just put God in it.

[00:45:35] - [Speaker 1]
Just pray.

[00:45:36] - [Speaker 2]
Just pray. And it's like we pray, you know, but we need

[00:45:40] - [Speaker 0]
You need practical. Yes.

[00:45:41] - [Speaker 1]
We pray, but we're still fighting.

[00:45:43] - [Speaker 2]
Mhmm. So I think it's important, you know, these classes or counseling is held like pastor Anne gives so that we can have more successful marriages. We were young again, we were young. We didn't know anything. Just was not just gonna do

[00:46:04] - [Speaker 3]
it with the Lord.

[00:46:06] - [Speaker 1]
Thought we did. I thought that my anointing would equal out to being a successful husband. They are two different entities.

[00:46:16] - [Speaker 0]
Oh my gosh.

[00:46:17] - [Speaker 1]
Two different things. Because just because you're anointed, because you can prophesy, does not mean you're a good communicator.

[00:46:24] - [Speaker 0]
Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. I agree with that. Yeah.

[00:46:27] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. Yeah.

[00:46:28] - [Speaker 0]
Well, hey, I just wanna mention to everybody, if you're if you're married and you're currently experiencing some some some challenges, be humble enough to submit yourselves to counseling. And I would strongly advise you to seek out counselors who are Christian based counseling. There's all kinds of counselors out there that you wanna know from God's perspective. And Pastor Anne's trained, you know, a lot of counselors, Christian counselors and churches, they are they are are trained. Don't know.

[00:47:01] - [Speaker 0]
I don't if you need certificates or whatever, but seek them out, be humble and do that. And I also want to as we come to an end over here, just say, you know, we're not saying that divorce is a sin and you are going to hell. We're not saying Okay. There are certain situations, adultery, abusive, spouses beating up on each other. Get away from that.

[00:47:27] - [Speaker 0]
Okay. Get away from that. Another thing I want to say before we end it also is, when you listen to other people going through a divorce or something like that, there's always two sides to everything. That's right. Don't just listen to the one person and now you're their best friend and now you just lost a friend because you heard one side of the story and this other person is is the devil himself.

[00:47:51] - [Speaker 0]
You know, there's two sides to every story. Give them both the benefit of the doubt and love them both because they're they're going through some hard stuff. Okay. Yeah. And we're just saying to please seek counsel.

[00:48:04] - [Speaker 0]
If you have gone through divorce, it's not a sin. And on the other hand, we just want to end it right now with some prayer for those who may be experiencing divorce or have experienced divorce or about to thinking about it. So we want to end it with prayer along that line. LaShawn, do you mind leading us on that? You guys gave wonderful testimony, by the way.

[00:48:27] - [Speaker 0]
By the way, for anybody who doesn't know, originally when we were planning for this, we said you know, we're not gonna talk about that. That's too personal Okay, so LaShonda and Marcus have really opened up from their hearts. So hope I learned something I when I said a little while ago I'm feeling convicted I am am. Hopefully some of you are. Okay, so if you are, I am too.

[00:48:50] - [Speaker 0]
Okay, we all are. Okay, we can always get better in our marriages. LaShaunda?

[00:48:54] - [Speaker 2]
Yes. Thank you, dad. Dad, we thank you for this opportunity to pray for our brothers and sisters, God. God them that is going through a divorce or experiencing God separating or anything in that aspect. Dad we ask you even now.

[00:49:11] - [Speaker 2]
Dad we ask you God because you are the mender. You are the God of reconciliation, God. You can deliver. You can heal, dad. In the name of Jesus.

[00:49:20] - [Speaker 2]
Dad, we even ask you now, God, to go into homes, God. God, we ask you to mend marriages back together, dad. In the name of Jesus. God, you are the mighty counselor, dad. In the mighty name of Jesus.

[00:49:34] - [Speaker 2]
So dad, for them that that can't find counsel, dad, I pray that you begin to speak to their hearts. In the name of Jesus right now, show them which way to go, dad. In the name of Jesus. Them that are in marriages, god, that has been abused or anything that in a harmful or hurtful way, dad, we pray that you heal them, dad. In the name of Jesus, father.

[00:49:58] - [Speaker 2]
Father, we thank you that you are the great fixer even now, dad. In the mighty name of Jesus, father. We thank you for, god, in the name of Jesus, for you just, god, mending marriages together, dad. In the name and we thank you for being a forgiving God.

[00:50:14] - [Speaker 0]
Yes, ma'am.

[00:50:14] - [Speaker 2]
Thank you for being a forgiving dad. We thank you in the name of Jesus even now. Father, we give you the honor. We give you the glory and we ask this in Jesus name. Amen.

[00:50:25] - [Speaker 0]
That was beautiful. Shonda. Thanks for doing that. Yeah, that was the Lord was in that. I'd like to remind everybody that we have a new website, right?

[00:50:33] - [Speaker 0]
It's insight.godcast.com. Please give us your likes. Give us your subscriptions. It really blesses us. And we never we never want to end without giving anybody the opportunity to re mend their relationship with the Lord if that's necessary.

[00:50:50] - [Speaker 0]
Or maybe this is the first time you're thinking about it. This is your opportunity right now. Don't put it off. Pastor Mark is gonna lead us in a ending prayer.

[00:50:59] - [Speaker 1]
The Bible says if you confess with your your mouth and believe in your heart the Lord Jesus Christ, and that you believe that he died on the cross for your sins, that you shall be saved. So I ask that you repeat after me. Say, father, forgive me for I have sinned, and my sins are ever before me. But I know that you're a God that can deliver me. You're a God that can forgive my sins.

[00:51:20] - [Speaker 1]
And so I accept you into my life as my Lord and savior. And I thank you for saving me in Jesus name.

[00:51:30] - [Speaker 2]
Jesus name.

[00:51:31] - [Speaker 1]
Amen. Amen. The angels of heaven rejoice. That's right.

[00:51:34] - [Speaker 0]
They do. That's right.

[00:51:35] - [Speaker 1]
Dancing. We rejoice. Okay. Find a church and lock in. That's right.

[00:51:41] - [Speaker 3]
That's good.

[00:51:42] - [Speaker 0]
Yeah. So I don't know if you guys know it, but every time we have a show, I always wear some different hats Marcus Marcus is my is my my clothing and style culture guy. He always tells me not Roy dress up better than that So but I'm wearing a special hat over here. Okay, this thing that I have on right over here. This is special

[00:52:02] - [Speaker 1]
I like This is special.

[00:52:03] - [Speaker 2]
I love it. Yeah.

[00:52:03] - [Speaker 0]
Okay. So my wife and I, we both like Sherlock Holmes.

[00:52:06] - [Speaker 3]
I was gonna say.

[00:52:07] - [Speaker 0]
So this is the Sherlock Holmes hat, right? Yeah. I was at Melden Hall Airbase one time over in The UK and went shopping in the little souvenir shop over here and they had one of these hats. And I went up to the lady, the British lady, I said, ma'am, I'd like that Sherlock Holmes hat over there. And she said, Mr.

[00:52:24] - [Speaker 0]
Resto, Sergeant Resto. She said, Sergeant Resto, that's not what we call it. And she said, it's called a deer stalker's hat.

[00:52:31] - [Speaker 1]
A deer stalker's hat.

[00:52:33] - [Speaker 0]
Yes. So like for hunters.

[00:52:34] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah.

[00:52:35] - [Speaker 0]
Yeah. And it has a little flap so we put it down over you when you're stalking deers, I guess. Anyway, that's it. You're see me wear a different hat next time. See you, everybody.

[00:52:46] - [Speaker 0]
Take care.

[00:52:46] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah.